SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hey bro, I'm glad you're back with me today. Good to be back with you. Yeah. You good? I'm well, my lord. We uh keeping it easy on our traditional Sundays. We had coffee this morning, stopped by and got some comics. And now we uh let's forget about the donuts now. Oh yeah, that's right. Blondie donuts in Edgewater, Maryland. Yes. Biscuits, gourmet donuts, cakes, and coffees and all the things that make a Sunday morning what it needs to be. And now we got cigars.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

And now we have a cigar. What are you smoking? Well, I am smoking the Madura Box Press. It is Honduras wrapper with a um Nicaragua Nicaragua.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Filler. That's pretty deep. What am I smoking? I think you'll say you'll say it better than I've said it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

That is funny. You're smoking uh try to see it. Oh, it's a my father. Uh floor. Floor, floor. Mm-hmm. I I ain't gonna say better than you. It's Antheus, Antheus, my father Antheus. It is a Habana cigar though.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, yeah. My father's one of my favorites. That's actually the first cigar I smoked, and I smoked a full body. I'm sorry, my father, and those who are listening, but I can't see the little writing. Sometimes it's small, but it's a good smoke, and it's a good Sunday, and after coffee and some comics on deck now, you can smoke it out and have a chat up. I definitely wanted to talk to you. We were talking earlier in a conversation where you mentioned, I think kind of randomly, but I think it was something that was on your mind. I wanted to dig a little deeper when you asked about why don't men ask for help. Yeah. And um, I know we talked about it briefly, and you know, I I gave my suggestions, you know, sometimes it's fear, you know, sometimes it's being a safe place, how you were raised, culture, just the way you were guided and reared, uh, inexperienced childhood. I think a lot of what we see as adults, men specifically, is what we saw as boys. Absolutely. You know, what was missing, um, what was there, what wasn't there, and it shaped how we see ourselves, how we perceive ourselves, how we present ourselves, and ultimately how you interact with people at large. Can you dig a little deeper? What, you know, what brought that on and what were you thinking in the sense of why men don't ask for help?

SPEAKER_03 3:05

There's probably a lot of conversations or just watching and listening to men at the cigar lounge. They come into the cigar lounge wondering, looking lost. And you ask them, hey, how can I help you? Okay. They say, I'm just looking. Okay. And then they go inside the humor door and walk around 12 times. Okay. And come back out and say, hey, can you help me? Instead of initially asking for help. When they knew when they walked in the door, they needed help.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Hmm. That's interesting. I'm trying to think, let me think from a think about it from a personal perspective. When I go into a venue of any kind, well, I'll say specifically, you know, sometimes that I'ma say that comes from not knowing, but feeling like you should know because you're a man.

unknown 4:15

I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

And I know it, I know it doesn't really make sense because why would you do that? But I feel like culture, society, um positions us in a posture of awareness, covering, accountability, responsibility, not only for ourselves, but ultimately for families and families equate to communities, associations, um, any gathering place, uh, any personal bonds, you know, emotional or romantic. Well, in leadership, as men in our leading, we should always know because we're responsible and expected to be in charge. I know that may be more than not, but I think that's something we carry with it. So I go in and let me say when I first started smoking, I I lean on other people who were smokers. And even you, I lean on you now. And sometimes I will smoke something and not be fully aware of the brand, the history behind the brand. But what I do is trust you. I trust your suggestions because of your experience. So you know I like a full-body cigar. So if you suggest something, you suggest it, even if it's mild, it's still a good smoke that you suggest. So I rest in that. It's not until late I say, oh, this is a so-and-so and so-and-so. But I'm not afraid not to know. Okay. Like I'm not afraid if it's not your company, if it's somebody else, or if it's somebody at the store, I'll ask. I'll start off like a full-bodied. This is what I prefer. You know, I definitely usually like house blends and sticks that they may have, and I'm open for the high ends, but I'm going after an experience. And so the experience for me is not what it costs to smoking and who's talking about it. It's it's my experience. So if it's a great cigar and it was $2 and it was a great cigar, and I saved $10 or $12. So I know that's a roundabout way, but it I think it helps shape the men's psyche. You know, um, we don't want to ever feel like we don't know, we're not enough, we can't contribute, and we need to be led. When I think there's a yin and yang, there's the female and male energy. And basically, you know, female energy is not the feminine energy in the sense where it means that you're less than a masculine man, it means more receptive. Right. And being able to receive, as well as masculine being able to lead, initiate, and execute. And there's a balance that we have in us that we need to work on developing so that we don't feel, you know, less than or insufficient or, you know, ill-prepared or fish out of water.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Right. Uh as you were talking, I my mind went back to my childhood when I just arrived in the car with my uncle. Mm-hmm. And he be lost as all get out. This is for uh GPS. And he would say, a man is never lost. Okay. And you know, at that time, of course, I was young. I'm like, yeah, you lost. But at the end of it, we end up getting to the destination.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

At the end of it, yeah. So I mean, how many hours lost, how many miles lost, how much gas burned.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

And so when you say that when I think about it, when I think about the men that come into the lounge, and then when I think about uh us as men, I guess our creature and our habits, it is really all ego. And I don't know if you have to be mature enough or the need has to be great enough for you to put your ego down to ask for help. Wow. Because a little bit. Maybe a little bit of both. Maybe just both. And so when I equate it to men coming to the cigar lounge, it's because it ain't a cigar for them, it's a cigar for somebody else that they want to surprise and they want to give it to them, or maybe it is for them. And they don't want to leave out with the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Which is almost counterintuitive because if you don't know what you're looking for, it's like Uncle, you know, men don't get lost. Okay, so in that whole dynamic, for me, the smart part about it is I don't know where I'm going. I may be intuitive, but I don't know where I'm going. So the best way for me not to get lost is to ask.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Or to keep going. Until you figure it out?

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Until you figure it out. That means you need to report up to the gas station. Say, man, where's what's the name? Where's so-and-so? It's like, I thought you weren't lost. Man, I just need, you know, you know, it's like, why you didn't get that from the beginning? But again, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

But I think you learn, I think you said something key, you know, you learn it over time. Um, and life gets to a place where it's hard enough or situations tough enough where you've got to learn how to ask and be okay with having to ask. But I I think what happens is in men, it's how we perceive ourselves when we need to ask. That we failed, we're incapable, we don't have enough, we don't have the resources, we're not smart enough, we're not exposed, we should know the things we don't know. Right. But why? You know, why are we plagued with that?

SPEAKER_03 10:14

I don't know. It's like this happened the other day. Uh this gentleman, you know, now you can pay for stuff with tap, right? Yeah. You can tap or you can insert your credit card. And so the bank that he was with, or the credit union that he was with, they told him that they not investing in tap on their credit cards, but you can put the credit card on your phone and use it like that. Okay, okay. And this gentleman, he was an older gentleman. He said, Well, you know, I'm old school, I don't trust all that. But he would take the time, so we had to, I mean, it had to strip, he had to strip swipe the card, and the stripe with the str the strap with the what is it, the the stripe on the card didn't work. Um then he inserted it. It didn't say go back to swiping. And so he had to do this song and dance with before the credit card to register. And uh I say, sir, I say, not to get in your business, I say, but so you want I said, do you do this at all merchants when you go buy something? He said, yeah. He said, but I'm okay with it. I say, wow. I say, well, if next time you come here, let's just think about it. I said, I'll help you put it on your phone. Okay. And I helped another gentleman put his credit cards and his wallet on his phone. Okay. He said, man, this easy, this has this has helped me so much. And um it is those cases where men, when men do ask for help. And when they do ask for help, they are appreciative. And then some say, I should have just done this first. Yeah. And uh so that's why that's why I take it to the place of ego, you know. And uh it's it's it's just always interesting that if my position is to help you, and the only way that I can help you is that you ask for help. Or if I volunteer myself and be in your space and uh push the issue, hey man, I'm here to serve you, how can I help you? Um, and just be in there with them and don't say nothing, or just say, hey, if you need help, I'm here. And it's for me, it's a I look at it for a lot of different angles, for a lot of different lessons in the behavior of us. And you got some men, they know what they want.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Um or they want to, and because we're a lot of men, we're creatures of habits, they'll say, hey, let me try something new. What you got new?

unknown 13:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

What you think about it? Have you tried it? And so that's what really got me on the the journey of why we don't ask for help. And so that's just, you know, on a social level, but even in our personal line I saw with me. It was a time that, and I guess it's how God has created us, that I always want to fix it. I still got a lot of that in me now. But I want to fix it for somebody else. But, you know, I need fixing myself. And so, okay, I've heard this saying, and I think I read this a long time ago, you know. It's hard for the man to heal the world when he not healed himself. Absolutely. And so, absolutely, in doing the work and needing work, it's when I see us as men that needing that need help, it's like you the insecurities are screaming. Yes. Because it it magnifies itself out some other kind of way. Like I say, when they come in the door, they wondering. They looking, you know, like, why is this right now, why is it not right in front of me? You know? And so when I take and I meditate or think about uh the things that I need maturing or developing, or I don't know the right word, but help, let's say we're talking about help. Uh, and even, you know, my relationship with you. Because of my personality and your personality, we clash, but not to the point where within we shut down from each other. You give me a different reference or a different viewpoint. Like, think about it like this. Have you thought about it like this? Yeah. Um, I'd be like, hmm, I'll give you backlash, but I hear you.

unknown 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

You know what I'm saying? Same here, same ear.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

And um, but you know, let me say this here. This I think that's key that you say that because I think also men learn to ask for help and trust that reach out based on their relationships with other men and other people in general, but men specifically, where they feel safe. Like where they feel safe that when I ask you this, that doesn't mean I'm emasculating myself. It doesn't mean I have undone all the work I have done to become who I am. This is just a moment in time where I don't know. I need guidance, I need support. And a lot of times we internalize that because again, we're supposed to know. And I think the value in knowing is not that we're supposed just to know without any experience, any foresight. Um, I think the power and the strength of masculinity is that what we don't know, we obtain and acquire the knowledge through whatever means, whether teaching, coaching, learning, uh, mentor, um, whatever the guidance may be, and then we apply that, and from that becomes wisdom, and we step forward into it and let it show up in our lives and express it to other people. But the challenge is if you got men who are all so proud and egotistical and not willing to break down and be sensitive to be transparent and vulnerable, not weak, but just open for developing and for um elevation, you'll never know that there's a need because you're too proud to say one. You know, you're bragging doses about things because you'll have people at different stages in life, you know, they'll be in the career of their of their life, their dream job, you know, making the money they want to make, you know, living in the house, owning the car, but there is still something about who they are that needs help. You know, we're never without it. So those perspectives are different. So you may find somebody who's more accomplished, and they're thinking, what can I learn from someone who isn't accomplished? It's it's I mean, it's it's a myriad of myriad of um angles to look at it and the different dynamics and people's culture, who they are as a man, man, what they've experienced as a boy. Because that's really, I believe that's really what we're contending with. We're contending with the little boy. Yeah, absolutely. We're always contending with that experience uh that brought us into this world, that shaped us, um, our thinking, our philosophies, our tempers, our temperament, should I say, more importantly, um our approach to life, our approach to love and romance, our approach to careers, social interaction, things like that help shape us. And, you know, we talk about being in the cigar lounge, it's like now the second coming of barber shops. Right. You know, because there's a lot that goes on in there, there's a lot that happens. People come and present the them they want you to see, opposed to always just being, you know, you know, the full strength version of themselves everywhere. Um I would say from a personal point of view, it comes from living. It comes from experiencing, it comes from finding help that is helpful, which reinforces your ability to be confident and have courage to ask people for help. If you're always asking somebody who lets you down, who can't help, who promises to help, then you shut down. Right and I think I cut you off.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

That's that's an adulthood. Yeah, yeah. So let me and and I have to say it this way. I just had a whole vision of the root of why we don't. Okay. Can I share? Sure. And this is a Charlesism. As long as we can stay funky and chic with it, I mean. Hey, here we are. As a child, as a little boy, when you are outside playing, you don't know anything to do but play. Okay. And when conflict arises with your playmate, you don't know that it's not okay. Okay. And so now you have this whole thing in the community or the neighborhood that makes it be a whole nother thing. Where within we don't go to our parents and tell our parents, hey, I just got in a fight with John Boy. And the parent goes to the next parent, and we come together in the community and have a conversation. Okay. And growing up, if I got in a fight with somebody in the community, my mama will come outside. She will whoop me. Oh, wow. Or smack me every time that person hit me if I don't hit them back. Okay. That's what growing up was. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

And so how did you carry that forward into adulthood? I don't like conflict. Because of that?

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Because of that. Gotcha. And so to stay away from it. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Gotcha. I just stay away from it. Yeah. But the unfortunate part about it is as you get older, you understand disagreements and conflicts can lead to a more healed adult relationship. And I can resolve matters, but it is that corridor of conflict that nobody wants to be in. Right. Like just a hint of it. And I hear you. And I and I, you know, and I totally identify with you on that. Um, I I totally and I'm gonna say this. I went to an event the other night, and I knew I was gonna be around people I hadn't seen in many years in relationships that to me were dead now or had just fallen off. Just because they had been nurtured. Not necessarily because there was any conflict that had arisen or that I was running from. But I had to kind of calibrate myself to be in that environment because I had not interacted with those people for so long, and the last interaction was felt foreign. Okay. Just felt foreign. Just no, just having seen you, somebody you've known for a long time, people you've known for a long time, and you feel like you'll be closer, but you aren't. But I've learned to accept that, and in my mind, all it was was love. Wherever we left off, wherever things ended, where and whenever the last time was that I saw you, it's great to see you now, period. Not why haven't I seen you, why haven't I heard from you, or let's get together, you know, trying to drum all that. No, it's really good to see you. Take care, you know, that kind of thing. But those are adulting strategies where you know you resolve. I mean, it comes down to emotional intelligence when it talks about, you know, managing emotions and the relationships and the empathy. Like, you know, you mentioned being young men and young boys playing. You know, there's not there's a level of empathy that has not fully developed yet at that time. So the approach now to resolve again is different. And you learn to do that over time, and you learn to do it in safe spaces, um, in conflicts with people that are close with you, and you and you learn how to work it out where somebody is not willing to trade you off because of a conflict. You know, a situation where you know people think they can fix you, and often I say, you know, no, just love me while I fix myself. Like, I don't think anybody can fix anybody. Certainly, people can be helpful on someone's journey to healing, development, relationship management, all those things, but I don't think for me, it's not until I've gotten to a place where my soul tribe, people that I know, you know, believe in me, believe in my philosophies and theories and my outlook on the world, we share some, you know, similar views. It's easier to become safe and vulnerable and to flip off and to have conflicts, not because you want to hurt people, because you're just growing with people. I mean, John Legend said we're just ordinary, we really are. And the thing about that, the thing about it is we bring, again, I go back to the childhood when we were boys. If we didn't grow up together, we don't know what those childhood experiences were like. And we don't know personally if they really still rest in us until we run into, like, you talked about conflict. Well, if we're always laughing and joking, I don't know conflict is a struggle for you until we get in one.

unknown 25:40

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

But then I've gotta now be mindful enough enough about the conflict. What is it that I want from this? Do I need to be right in the conflict or do I need to protect you in the conflict? And protecting you means not necessarily not having a point of view or idea, but protecting you in a way that if this comes again, you can trust it.

unknown 26:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

You don't have to walk away. You may not like it. Not gonna like it, man. But realizing it is part of human nature, it's part of relationships, it's part of, it's part of knowing people, having conflict. But the key in that is coming back and getting it right. Restoring it and getting it right where both parties feel appreciated, seen, recognized, and love, not necessarily making the point right. And then building on that again is that you keep coming around with somebody. Meaning whatever has happened is not enough to throw you off your game with that particular person and realizing who deserves that kind of investment. Because everybody doesn't, every scenario doesn't, and it's not until you mature to that place that you are intentional about what that means. Right. Even when it's weird, you know, there are no there are no friends I have now in my life that are close to me that I'm not willing to fight for. If I'm fighting for it and I realize I'm the only one fighting for it, then I will stop fighting for it. Not because I don't care. You know, you know, uh cutting ties with people or canceling relationships or walking away, it's not ideal. It hurts just as much as loving somebody. But the the awareness is that there are some relationships where that is not sacred.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

And you keep pouring yourself into that particular one when you're they're not making the same investment.

unknown 27:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

So then you just gotta take the energy and realize, you know, there are some that I'm willing to invest in, and there's some just I'm willing to be, you know, just draw the line and be cool with it. And it happens, unfortunately. And so again, it goes back to who we were as little boys and and younger men and young adults, and then experiences in our life, you know, with love, with um careers, goals, aspirations, money, accomplishments, family, all those things impact us. And usually as men, we we keep them low, we keep them buried deep, we cover them up with things, shiny things, you know, cars, body counts, right? Um, all those things that don't say much about us as far as character, but they're the things that we value because somewhere they show that we are, you know, moving through life. We're navigating, we're here and there, we have some touch points, but at the core of it, you know, we need to be able to, I guess, first be very honest with ourselves. Absolutely. And the first thing with asking for help beyond ourselves is realizing and accepting that we need help. But accepting that we need help isn't accepting that we're weak or we're without or we're less than. It is just a place where I need help. I need guidance, I need insight, I need direction, I need training, I need coaching, I need some more patience. I need you to understand me differently. And we can only do that when we recognize the need is great enough. Right. But I think also that it's okay. That part. And that there are people who will give us what we ask for. Because that's all we're looking for. That little boy is looking for the affirmation somewhere that he lost along the way, and as an adult, now he's more in control of things, but it still doesn't mean healing has set in and he's moved away from those issues. That just means as an adult, I can go home on my own, you know, from spending time with somebody. I showed them what I want them to see, and I'm out. I go to work, I present this one persona, you know, then I'm masking somewhere else. And that's a lot, we do a lot of masking with that for our own protection. Um, sometimes because, you know, we have been wired that way. Community, you know, tells us to do that. You know, us as black men, that's a challenge. That has its own set of challenges. So you take that and and you compile it with everything else that we find is a challenge and mix it up in the world, and it may not be as favorable for us, but it's amazing that we as men sit in social settings so much time together, talk and shop. And I don't mean that we need to have a deep dive every time we're together, but it's okay if we need to be there, because I find it um, I find it helpful to be able to put things on the line, have a conversation, get some guidance and advice, and then put all that in place and move forward. Yeah. Not stay there, not be stuck there. But then also have enough confidence in those who are in my circle that if I'm just stuck on it a little longer and I need to keep rehearsing it, that they won't get tired of hearing me. I mean, again, I think when you find a place of trust, whether that's in a relationship, that's with a group of people, a romantic relationship, platonic relationship, whatever the nature of collaboration may be or the bond is, when you find somewhere where you can be yourself, accept it as yourself, and yourself is not judged as less than because you're unaware, you're aloof, um, but somebody, you know, that will guide and be patient and see you on your way to and help guide you along the way, and sometimes just catch you when you fall. Right. But again, I think in relationships you have to you have to make the effort, you know. I say, you know, lead with intention and love from your heart. And it takes time.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

It's most definitely a head and a heart thing. They both have to be the same.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yes. Because the response, what I realized is while it may be towards me, it's not about me. It's about a framework you already have in your life. So I have to learn to be aware of that, understand it, and respect it. Not cross the boundary, but if I see where I can help, be mindful when I can help and how I help so that you feel less threatened or offended or bothered. And even or embarrassed. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's the we're talking about what happened as a little boy, your your upbringing. So people try to make sense of who we are now with a snapshot of us. But there's a full life we have lived up until this point. And it's gonna take just more than that one profound moment to turn us around. Yeah. But again, I mean, that is the beauty of, you know, adult relationships and engaging and and and staying around and practicing love and conditioning yourself to be with people. Because when you do that and you have that sense of awareness, I think it now becomes universal. It's just not your interaction with men, it's with um all sexes, races, people of, you know, different descent. Um, because now you have an awareness of yourself that can determine where you find yourself with interacting with other people. I mean, it's it's just not a one-hit situation, one-stop shot. We fix it all now in this conflict. It's ongoing because again, these are years of experiences that most of us as people, specifically men, we live very silently with.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

And we don't want anybody in those spaces because we all right in them. Yeah. And we we've not fixed it. You gotta, I say face it and fix it. That's the that's the best way you can get where you're going. Thanks for being here. This was good.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Thank you for should have said it at the top of the show, but I'll say it at the end that uh thank you for the opportunity to share. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Thank you, sir. I gotta stay funky, gotta stay chic, gonna stay chicken, and be everything that you know you can be. Yeah. And be everything that you know you can be.